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Post by Ferox on May 22, 2007 11:01:07 GMT 8
CONTRIBUTORS READ ME: To anyone who wants to contribute: Please remember to keep it simple, don't write an entire fan fiction spanning 100's of pages, and keep it within fantasy guidelines of a Faerun style world. Feel free to make class/alignment/race rectricted quests, just remember I'm aiming for a 20-30 area module, which in itself, is going to be 100-300mb, which isn't much to work with. if you would like a copy of the module to peruse, feel free to contact me. When you have a copy of the module, you can build areas that go with it, make your own quests, so on and so forth. Please remember to export your areas/convos/scripts and send those to me individually rather than an updated version of the module. I will then compile them all on my master copy. Depending on what is contributed, I cannot garuntee that everything will go up on this particular module. Please be aware that some minor modifications will have to be negotiated with the creator if there are any technical details. All work will be accredited accordingly in an attached note file when the final version is complete so please send me your details you would like listed if at all. This module is going to be uploaded to various NWN2 module sites and distrubuted freely and without my control, since I would like more than 6 people to play this module, just a heads up. This has been posted to front page of thread, where all further updates on module regulations/requirements will be posted. SEEKING CONTRIBUTIONS OF (number required): Stories for online library (x) Quests (10) Conversations (x) Areas to explore and carry out quests (28) Interesting NPCS with background stories (30) --------------------------------- In the process of making a module for NWN2. Basically, I'm trying to make something to extend the life of the game, since once we finish with the campaign on multiplayer, do we really want to go through it again? My guess is not really. I've downloaded some modules that other people have made, so we have something different to play, however they aren't very good, and some of them are wierd, but they are worth a shot much much later, and can provide some building tips for me. So how is the toolset? It's freaking impossible! It's considerably harder to use than the original.. I just figured them out yesterday though, so I can finally build something!!! ;D Control Left click to drag the screen, by the way. So I spent the past 10 or 12 hours making 1 room. Yah, 1 room, only. In that same amount of time, I could make 3 or 4 areas in NWN1. But it's not that its difficult, its that there is SO much to do. You are given almost complete control over every single detail. It's like you are asked to decorate an entire room for a party all by yourself, every light fixture, every sound, every person, and eveything that goes with it, including the flames on the candles, it's all up to you to do. Here are some pictures of the room, it's a bar. So far, I've come up with a story, a very small story, since I'm so busy trying to actually build it, suffice to say, you enter this world, that is politically split in two, and this tavern sits right on the border, hence it's name, "The Middleground". You can choose who to fight for, the guys in the East or the guys in the West. It's not going to be good guys versus the bad guys, but the styles will be like that, so the guys in the West will look Evil, have the evil chair, the dark rooms, the guy in the black robes, but they won't BE evil, it's up to you to make them good or bad depending on your actions in the game. Hopefully the climax will be leading a fight against the opposing forces, and have 3 outcomes, West Win, East Wins, and the secret ending. ;D Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself, and it's just an idea for the story, it's nothing solid at the moment, I just needed some inspiration for the area. Perhaps Riot could help me out AFTER her exams since she writes fiction fantasy, which would be helpful, and Ralph, when you get back to HK, it would good to get your input and coding skills again, since, we're going to need them. Building this place took the better part of the morning and evening, I have to reiterate, you need to actually put the flames on top of the candles, and then put the noise and light that comes from the flame on top of that! Some of the design comes prepackaged, like this dinner table, the chairs and everything are already organised to be plonked whereever you like, but it's not much to go on, so I've tried to make my own stuff, including a bar and a poker table, and the rich corner where the nobles eat in solitude. Eventually, I'll figure out how to get people to sit in them! Behold, a person! This guy took 30 minutes to make. 30 minutes! And I haven't even given him a conversation or scripts yet.... My personal thoughts? I need a team to make this possible, otherwise it will take aeons to finish. BUT, I don't want to involve to many people, since it'll spoil it for them. What I am considering is, since once you figure it out, it's pretty simple, to help me build the world. So I'll set the scene, upload some drawings of what this world is going to look like, and then people can volunteer to build certain areas of the game, various villages or even rooms in villages. It's just a thought, and if you want to contribute in some way, feel free, but first I have to figure out if anyone is interested, and what that contribution can be.
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Post by Ferox on May 22, 2007 15:41:57 GMT 8
Population: Tire! I made my quota of people for the day. The local police force is on the far left, just a demo, dunno if I should acutally use them or not. Depends where they fit in. Some peons and peasants from middle to right, and the barkeep at the back. It took me 4 hours to make all these people, although, I did give them backgrounds for when you examine them, so that ate up some time. I could cut it down, but I would like to make the game as in-depth and as interesting as possible. One thing that needs fixing, they ALL have the same gloves and boots, and I can't seem to change them. So yeah, the easy part is over, now I need to give them conversations, quests, shops and actions to perform...
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Post by Arclight on May 22, 2007 16:59:05 GMT 8
I also write fantasy fiction btw. Though true, I'm far too busy and lazy to help you with this.
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Post by Magiaz on May 22, 2007 20:17:23 GMT 8
Can't change the boots? Should be able to...If they are a preset appearance build, then they can't be changed (I'm assuming similarity to nwn1 here, since I haven't chcked much on making npcs yet).
When messing around with clothing / armour, either give them boots, or make their primary clothes have boots as part of hte costume... though you have to turn it on before choosing an appearance...
logically, that should it, but i'm going to poke around the toolset and investigate the issue further...
Nevermind. Solved anyway.
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Post by Magiaz on May 22, 2007 23:51:51 GMT 8
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Post by -Riot- on May 23, 2007 0:23:43 GMT 8
No matter how you put it, the nwn2 toolset still looks like a bugger to boot. >.> I'll have to fiddle with it sometime tomorrow and get the hang of it, possibly make a lovely forest...full of enemies. >=D
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Post by malavern on May 23, 2007 1:51:46 GMT 8
i cant even get it to load on my pc.. guess my motherboard wasnt built for games.. DAMN YOU KAI!!
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Post by Magiaz on May 24, 2007 1:06:43 GMT 8
if you want, i can make enemies respawn for you. Endless slaughter.
The toolset is even more finicky than the game, yeah. Only just managed to get the hang of the new terrain features XD
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Post by Ferox on May 24, 2007 12:53:32 GMT 8
Okay, some more progress, firstly, I have started working on a town outside of the tavern. Progress is slow because again I have to learn new things and relearn the system. The Middleground Tavern in it's simple form. I'll decorate it later. First I need to get the ground work for the town down. I have 1 sq kilometre of land to fill up. 1...sq...kilometre.... Think of that what you will. I'm drawing out the boundries of the town, this one will be walled in, others will just have mountains and rivers and natural boundaries. I made a river here, it was difficult but not impossible, and I added a bridge for good effect. Looks pretty. Sadly, it's very touchy, you need to stop people from walking into it, or else that happens. Or this...You need to effectively hide the edges of the water, since it doesn't fill the river with water, it merely creates a blanket of water over whatever surface you choose. This creates detail issues, as you can plainly see. Still, it's worth the effort. Once I fix the little glitches, I will start adding buildings, people, decor, and so on. Connecting the doors was exceedingly simple, so now you can walk in and out of the tavern.
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Post by Magiaz on May 24, 2007 19:48:38 GMT 8
yeah, the auto-baking doesn't quite fill all the mesh gaps correctly, unless you make it plainly obvious that the pc can't walk there ala 90 degree cliff leading into the water...
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Post by Ferox on May 24, 2007 20:09:41 GMT 8
Some more progress, decorated the bridge and tavern, still experimenting with the area builder, building outside it so much more diverse than inside, you can make mountains and cliffs, valleys, it's all there to do. I put a bird chirping in the tree, and I had to colour in the river to make it look muddy and silty. Gave it some vegitation as well. The tavern, with an outhouse that 'makes noises' and some plantlife and lights. At night time it gets dark so I need to illuminate the area. I also found a way to edit the background, so you can see a mountain range in the distance, rather than default blue sky and flat lands. The sun actually moves around, this is sunset behind the tavern, see the shadows from the walls strech across the floor.
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Post by Ferox on May 24, 2007 22:27:32 GMT 8
Okay, figured out some technical issues. The module can't go over 150k polygons or else things get crashy, so my aspirations will be greatly shrunk, however, it won't be an issue! Rather than making the town I'm building a simple starting point, it will be the main town in the area, and at each point of the compass with be a door leading to 2 or 3 quests, your mission being to help out the village with various problems from banditry to saving people from orcs. It sounds generic, but I'll make it fun and it'll give us something different to do, besides allowing me to practice with the world builder and come up with something better next time round, since I'm really enjoying myself. ;D I'll be in Singapore this weekend, so I'lve handed the module over the Magiaz to work on, so now he's obliged to make something or else...
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Post by -Riot- on May 24, 2007 22:40:37 GMT 8
This is going to be one looong and grueling process. XD Quite exciting though. ;D
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Post by Magiaz on May 25, 2007 1:24:04 GMT 8
Indeed, should be really sweet. >: )
Things will really speed up alot once i get back to hk. My time will be my own, and me and Fer will most likely to able to devote joint sessions working on this lasting for several days.
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Post by Magiaz on May 27, 2007 3:55:42 GMT 8
Built up the city some on friday, and did 4 merchants, weaponsmith, armoursmith, temple shop, wizard shop. All of these are preset shops, except for the temple one i made manually... and interestingly the custom one i made was the only one that worked right first time >_< First, the things that work right. Town Development Got a guard to patrol around the town. Made bunch of shops, all work correctly. I fixed the pricing thing, but couldent be stuffed to take a new screenshot. As for things to improve upon... Part of the wall has sunk... >_< I opened this door and behind it was another door. Totally blew my mind. (huh?!? wtf?!?) Also, the area transition from the Pub to hte city seems to have broken, which is weird since I recall it working before. XD The guides i've looked through give guidelines on making area transition, (as in making an area to click to to start the transition) but not on door transitions... I've looked through ferox's thing and nothing seems to be wrong >_< I can't make guards stand in the guard towers. I've tried immobilising them, vertically locking them, making the tower solid, but they keep falling to ground level :/ got the bar wench to walk around between tables and the wine racket, however, she doesn't pause or talk any yet. Might investigate the sit down coding tomorrow, and maybe make an action queue for the bar maid, with the last action making her go over a trigger that tells her to restart the same action queue... So i've done the simple coding / scripting tasks, but i havent bothered to do any of the small or in-depth details, like fine tuning the shop inventories, making interesting conversations on the merchants (at the moment the majority of merchant convo consists of swearing (i got bored)), but the open shop commands work fine, so i'll leave that to fer. 2 of the merchants are still default human / dwarf npcs, so they still need prettying up.
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Post by Ferox on May 27, 2007 14:16:06 GMT 8
;D Very nice Magiaz, that looks like a spffy town.
What levels do you think we should support? I'm guessing level's 1-5, since there are only going to be 10 or 12 quests when we get to building them.
The town looks great, I'll add trees and grass and decor everywhere. What's the size of the file look like? Remember to zip it, it compresses like nobodies business.
It looks really good mate, can't wait ti get back to it next week!
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Post by malavern on May 27, 2007 14:43:43 GMT 8
Okay, figured out some technical issues. The module can't go over 150k polygons or else things get crashy, so my aspirations will be greatly shrunk, however, it won't be an issue! Mayhaps your pc just doesnt have enough capabilities to run any more than 150k polygons? It happens sometimes..
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Post by Magiaz on May 28, 2007 1:04:14 GMT 8
"pc just doesnt have enough capabilities" its not a matter of his computer, its a matter of the computer of anyone who's going to play the module ever. You can increase the size of the basic humanoids by pretty much any proportion you like, and in reading about this there was a thread, and while there was no scaling size limit, it was recommended to keep polygon counts below 150k, becuase after that it'll start slaying some people. If it does start to slow Ferox's PC, what is it going to do to players running on minimum requirements? They wouldent stand a chance, and we need to maximise the number of players who can play. I must admit I don't recall if that was module wide, or area specific. Still sounds a good rule of thumb for me though. "levels do you think we should support" If we're going the low level route, we might want to consider about a three minimum (maybe putting in an auto-leveler) since level one characters are seriously fragile. No one really likes one hit deaths when your an elf wizard with 3 hp. More importantly, it would allow me to create and justify harsher encounters >: ) So maybe 3 to 5ish, since goblins and skeletons are pretty much the only thing feasible to fight at level 1, and those would get pretty dull for the level 5's who are already fireballing / Great Cleaving / close to whirlwind attacking. Another interesting note btw is that the cut scence camera angle when talking to the merchant occurs automatically, so we don't have to do that! Sechs. I might not see you online, as i'm currently correcting my sleeping patterns. Slept at 8am woke 5pm today :/ fail. I'm aiming to solve it by tuesday latest, so see how that goes. "trees and grass and decor" There are some conspiciously empty open spaces around the town, which look really odd and I didn't know what to put in them, so I'm leaving that to you. ;p If anything there's too much space, probably could of shrunk the area a bit... Trees and grass are things I've heard about causing performance problems, so just remember not to go too heavy. When i'm playing NWN, its always fine until i go into a small area with loads of grass trees, the bandit interruption when you leave fort locke, and Elanee's quest where you talk to the lake. Very small areas, but they really slow down my fps. "What's the size of the file look like?" Base size: 27.6 MB (29,010,401 bytes) I havent checked it compressed in case I want to work on it moar before returning it, although i'm pretty whacked out atm. /\ | | | Scaling is fun. All of those above are the same model, the two on the right are exactly the same, as are the two to the left on them, but from different angles XD. Either way, its the issue of being able to make drow like the huge one above (you can see all of her if you stand far away enough) and when someone asked for the recommended max size, they said anything as long as the overall poly doesn't go over 150k.
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Post by Ferox on May 28, 2007 7:17:54 GMT 8
Mayhaps your pc just doesnt have enough capabilities to run any more than 150k polygons? It happens sometimes.. I have a ASUS 8800GTS, I am more than capable of running a small continent, but if you actually read anything or did any research, you'd see not only would it be bad form for people with weaker computers, but in the NWN2 file, the areas in the main campaign are actually broken up into individual modules, the biggest file size being crossroadkeep at 344mb or something like that. You do realise that anything extra would slay the engine if it didn't slay the user's computer first? This engine is basically a revamp of the original NWN1 module, but it still relies on C+ and basic coding. It's like they've put super octane racing gasoline in a vary fragile old engine. So yeah, considering they had to make the Old Owl Well campaign an entirely different module, well, you can see I'm not going to be stupid and make a 1gb size game which no one else can play! Anyway, back to business... I did have a look at the grass issue in the manual, don't worry, it will be sparse, but it'll add a bit of colour to the otherwise plain floor. I won't overdo it like that crazy willowbow module, the crazy designer made every area thick with grass up to the waist. The town looks well decorated, now you've given me a structure, I'll just reinforce it, add some mountains and rolling hills, some dykes and such, make the ground a little uneven around the edges. Also, the river spikes are intentionally that low in that area.
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Post by Ferox on May 28, 2007 21:45:47 GMT 8
Back from Sinagpore, had a crack at the module tonight, Magiaz has done a bang up job and really impressed me, so I fixed some things up on my end to look like I'm not slacking off! ;D It get's really dark in Lenwic, so I added a few street lights. Also, found a fix for those blank backgrounds. 2D tree cards to put in the distance and give some filler. Will add some hills behind them as well for further depth deception. Just need to do this to the other 3 sides, and then put a bit more decor in town, namely, more people and atmosphere, say 20 people outside, and another 5 in the tavern. Then we can work on conversations, animations and finally scripts and quests! EDIT: Fixed the area transitions and wierd door problem with the outhouse, also finished 1 background. Now when you walk out the south gate for a quest, it doesn't quiet look like you're walking into oblivion. Another Edit: Just baked and ran through the area, I'm pleased to announce that with so much going on in my little town, and so many polygons, my computer just breezes on by happily. The amount of detail we have put into this game is tiny in comparison to the campaign module, so it doesn't even blink at what we've done with it so far. That means we can pretty this thing up to no end! Some more photos of me exploring the Lenwic village, mainly to check out the night lights and the doors out of town for any gaps in the illusion of depth. This is what happens when you don't really add anything. It looks acceptable with a few mounds of dirt...but I can do better. ;D Hmm, dark, the music is nice and spooky to, to add to the effect. Howl at the mooooon!
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Post by malavern on May 31, 2007 18:37:39 GMT 8
WTF?!
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Post by Ferox on May 31, 2007 18:40:20 GMT 8
Haha, Magiaz got bored when making the shops, so he messed with the text. That one was from the priest. I've changed it all though. He's got it at the moment, messing with the town and checking my first quest for bugs. We're 80% done with the town, but only 4% done with the entire module itself.
Look forward to it!
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Post by Magiaz on Jun 1, 2007 20:53:26 GMT 8
I've fixed the quest you set up, so it works, except that instead of destroying the book when you give it to the librarian, he gives you a second copy XD still need to fix that, but just means replacing CreateItem with DestroyItem. Also i moved the kid right outside the library for ease of debugging. Might do more work later.
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Post by malavern on Jun 2, 2007 10:43:38 GMT 8
Y'know, Ralph would probably change the text back to what it was! rofl
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Post by Magiaz on Jun 3, 2007 5:05:02 GMT 8
lol, ferox is dealing with the story / background mostly atm, so if i tried to write something normal it might of been useless and needed replacing anyway, though now that normal text is there i'd rather not waste time being counter productive ;p
I'm free this sunday, might poke around the module.
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Post by Ferox on Jun 3, 2007 8:45:25 GMT 8
Haha, Ralph if you want to write something go ahead, you're not bad at writing, so feel free to add your own quest if you like.
Did you get a look at my random convo for NPCs? I think I remember the problem, I didn't provide scripts to give each convo a 10% chance to show up or something like that.
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Post by malavern on Jun 3, 2007 11:41:49 GMT 8
indeed, though methinks ralph isnt that good at writing convos. Though he's excellent in writing background stories!!
Which reminds me, Hey Ralph, why dont you make a module based on Averon? You've already go the background story and things to it, but instead of being part of the main char group, make it so that we're the 2nd group, or somewhere further down the line, or before, whilst our main char was developing a name for himself...
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Post by Arclight on Jun 3, 2007 15:05:51 GMT 8
Ok, fine, maybe I'm willing to help with story development. Well, if you even need that is; you seem to be on top of the problem now anyway.
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Post by Ferox on Jun 3, 2007 16:16:37 GMT 8
Malavern, you realise the extreme pain and expense of time it will take to recreate Averon? It was planned at over 200+ areas large in NWN1, something that'll never fit on a NWN2 module, and I made a majority of the 60+ that are on the original file since I had some free time. We've already started on this project, and haven't even finished it, why recommend another storyline when this is requiring all our dedication? Arclight, if you want to write a quest or sidestory for our module, feel free. Riot is busy with exams but last I heard she's got something in mind, but anyone is welcome to contribute. To anyone who wants to contribute: Please remember to keep it simple, don't write an entire fan fiction spanning 100's of pages, and keep it within fantasy guidelines of a Faerun style world. Feel free to make class/alignment/race rectricted quests, just remember I'm aiming for a 20-30 area module, which in itself, is going to be 100-300mb, which isn't much to work with. if you would like a copy of the module to peruse, feel free to contact me. When you have a copy of the module, you can build areas that go with it, make your own quests, so on and so forth. Please remember to export your areas/convos/scripts and send those to me individually rather than an updated version of the module. I will then compile them all on my master copy. Depending on what is contributed, I cannot garuntee that everything will go up on this particular module. Please be aware that some minor modifications will have to be negotiated with the creator if there are any technical details. All work will be accredited accordingly in an attached note file when the final version is complete so please send me your details you would like listed if at all. This module is going to be uploaded to various NWN2 module sites and distrubuted freely and without my control, since I would like more than 6 people to play this module, just a heads up. This has been posted to front page of thread, where all further updates on module regulations/requirements will be posted.
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Post by malavern on Jun 3, 2007 20:51:50 GMT 8
Hmm?!
I never knew you guys made an Averon for NWN1... Kool.. I brought it up only cause it was a free RPG Ralph and i played everytime we were together (That talking thing we do so much)
Which had spanned over the better part of 5 years now. soooo.... yea...
anyhow, i didn't know bout the previous module you were designing.
Just an idea, but why dont you make several small modules to represent averon. i.e. 1-5 quests a time... something like Half-Life2, Episode1, Episode2 type games... slowly expanding over several long years
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