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Post by Arclight on Mar 12, 2007 11:29:20 GMT 8
I started to talk about this with Yonahan and Nick the other day, a home made night vision assembly. After having done some more detailed research I have discover that not only is it possible but with effort and patiance it's actualy simpler then I thought. The folowing is a compliation and summary of information from both me and my research. The basic principle, for those of you who are hearing this from me for the first time, is to use a digital camera sensative to infrared light; mind you, not hyper sensative like a thermal camera, a more vague type. On it's own it's not great but pair it up with an array of bright IR LED's and now you have a bright spotlight/lightsource that ONLY the assembly can see (or any other IR detectors for that matter). For thsoe of you who don't know, commerical digital camera CCD chips are sensative to both visible and IR light which is why they have IR blocker filters installed on them. A professional job is a simple mater of openning up the camera and replacing the said filters with IR pass filters (like Hoya R72 or R80) and this solution produces some very nice resolutions but are expesnive. Apparently, simpler and cheaper solutions exist using plastic gel lighting filters; using a sheet of a sheet of “Congo Blue” filter gel (Lee #181 or Rosco #382) (available in the states from suppliers or B&H for about US$6 per 24” sheet. If you're REALLY cheap, you can cut the gels out of a free sample book). Using the said cheap filter will filter out all but IR (and some blue) light. Not perfect but easily enough for our ameteur experiemental prototype. The only other key factor is to bare in mind that there is a good chance that home mods of a digital camera might destroy the damn thing so it's best to A) use a camera your willing to risk loosing (something cheap, relativly simple in HK) and B) somthing actualy fairly large to begin with (less fidly). For this initial prototype, the output will simply be the conventional video/audio outputs on the camera; this could be hooked up to a laptop/PC duing the testing phase. If and when this succeeds we can investigate miniturisation using modified webcams and PDA devices to allow the assembly to be entirley mounted on a soldier-system land-warrior style helmet/wrist display or mounted on a weapon Alien smartgun style. If we can track down nd hook up an actual optical interface panel (goggle vision) then we have ourselves a full blown home made night vision assmebly. MORE then that infact, an entire team with such assemblies can spot one anothers location and can obsevre the directionality of the light to see who's looking in what direction. One step further, as easy one at that, using IR flash LEDs and lasers as "markerlights" to designated locations/targets as requested. Combined with a comm system, these assemlbies would alow us to OWN in night games. In theory.
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Post by Ferox on Mar 12, 2007 12:34:55 GMT 8
Sounds great, it would also be easy to spot teammates in the dark since you'd see IR coming out of their head's/where the thing is mounted, helping limit TK's.
This would be useful if we could get a prototype up and running before we start nightgames during the summer.
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Post by pestexterminator on Mar 12, 2007 18:44:34 GMT 8
I like the concept of having nods for each member, allowing us to see infrared lasers at night, which according to the hrt looks kick ass. If any of you guys hav seen the night vision video of soldiers designating a target with an IR laser for gunship runs in iraq, u'll realise just how powerful it is to have an invisible laser point out targets for your teammates without hte enemy havin a damn clue of whats happenin
How big do you rekon you are going to start at -
cuz i read this article who made a nv scope for his gun - and it was pretty fkin huge.
the thing i'm most interested in probably would be anything small enough to cover one eye only. Instead of havin a US style - one input 2 output deal, where its stupid hard to aim cuz input is in the centre of the head, havin it on one eye, you can sight in using normal firing posture.
Theres also the fact tht you still have a non night vision eye, which has no light exposure from the nod, so that even if the nod was to fail mid game and screen blacks out, the eye with the night vision on will have to take a while to adjust from Really bright, from nod screen to really dark. In this situation, you still have an eye which is accustomed to the dark, enabling you to more quickly adjust to the dark, and safely ish make it back to safe zone or fix the problem wit the nod.
edit "NOD = night observation device"
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Goliath
Gunnery Segeant
Argh.
Posts: 571
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Post by Goliath on Mar 12, 2007 19:13:14 GMT 8
We could probably use some cheap security type cameras from Ap liu.
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Post by Arclight on Mar 12, 2007 19:14:47 GMT 8
You all bring up excellent points, good stuff. So, addressing one thing at a time... - Timescale: I dunno, but don't hold your breath, getting the project started -> prototype -> debugging -> re-design for soldeir -> prototype -> debug -> advanced prototype -> actual model = this could take some time, so don't hold your breath. This is assuming of course the project actualy succeeds. - Physical Perameters: The early prototype will esentialy be a digital camcorder, IR torch and a PC/laptop, just the tech testbed. In the future, I forsee a very compact device, essentialy only a webcam (they come pretty tiny these days) an LED panel (shaped to fit the helmet), some kind of compact direct output device and a PDA type device. The camera/torch/output assembly would be entirely mounted on a helmet and would most likely be much lighter then conventional NV. There would be a trailing wire down to the vest where the PDA device would be stored. At least thats what I predict at this stage anyway. - Monacle: Absolutley, my thoughts too. Not only for the reasons you emtnioned but also...two eyes covered would either require a binocular input device which is HARD to develope OR a mono input device which would eliminate your depth perception, very dangerous for us non-pros running around in the dark. Further more, the advantage of the PDA type device would mean it would allow for future software updates to include false color filters; red low-contrast to preserve night vision, yellow high-contrast for maximum sighitng, etc. - Components and Materials: Yonathan has mentione dhe has links to peeps in the industry so I'll have further discussion with him before I start to seek sources. A few side notes... At this stage, the following ideas are just speculation, hings that could potentialy be added in the later phases of the project. With software rigged up, a compass and time could be displayed on the HUD as well, handy for more precise engagements. Also, emergancy broadcast signals, HUD messages (count down, team mate numbers, remaining enemies; said info i updated by an out-of-game tactical co-ordinator). Also, for the tac-co-ord, he could be sitting at his home unit which is essetialy just a laptop. Wireless connections between NODs and the HOME allow for inter-team and master control orders and communications that are totaly silent and non-interceptable by hostiles. A seperate technology that could be integrated, an audio enhancemnt array; technologicaly even simpler really. Switching between high and low sensativities (with upper thresholds to prevent deafening ) and between a broad 360 mic and a parabolic one. The resulting integrated TAG (target aquistion gear) helmet would allow for sensory enhanced soldiers; also, with the proper build, it would reder us immune to being blinded by torchlight (threshold filters applied by the software, could see clean through bright light even if it's shined right at you) and even an immunity to flashbangs . Possibly, it could use a visible light channel as well to switch between the two should you wish to dissappear (as our IR emmiting equipement would be seen to normal NV as easily as it does on our NOD). Like I said, at this stage it's jsut wishful thinking but I'm jsut trying to demonstrate the potential for would could prove to be a very important piece of gear for night/low-light fighting.
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Post by woozie on Mar 13, 2007 5:29:52 GMT 8
My camera can take Nite Vision photos.. ;D
Woozie
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Post by Arclight on Mar 13, 2007 10:33:23 GMT 8
Indeed, there are several IR/visible equiped cameras on the commericla market, for video it's a damn site larger heavier and more expensive though.
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Post by xurbit on Mar 13, 2007 12:12:33 GMT 8
thats acutally sweet man I cant wait to see it working we should get a night game one day start at 11PM play till 8AM lol
Xt
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Post by malavern on Mar 13, 2007 13:42:00 GMT 8
i volunteer as a test subject... lab rat... etc...
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Post by Ferox on Mar 13, 2007 14:40:44 GMT 8
Found this site just poking around randomly. www.amazing1.com/vision.htmScroll down, for $5 you can buy plans to make your own nightvision set. It might provide some inspiration/ideas/different perspective. It also has other night vision equipment on there. This guy shows how to make a nightvision camera here. Detailed instructions on equipment and wiring, maybe some of that info can be lifted. www.angelfire.com/80s/sixmhz/infrared.html
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Post by Arclight on Mar 13, 2007 14:51:15 GMT 8
Thanks for the links; yes indeed, there are many site out there which offer advise and plans, even a few who offer conversion services for a fee.
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Post by pestexterminator on Apr 13, 2007 23:58:46 GMT 8
just a small insight about what i mentioned earlier bout IR designation: the fun you can get with NVGs www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_AUhHcT3Msthen i was snooping around, turns out there are IR cameras designed for use at the back of cars for reversing, some surprisingly cheap, dunno about the focus or anything these will offer, but resolution is not that bad and for the price of about 100, 150 on ebay. Tho they seem to be active IR cameras, which require an IR illumination source cuz round the cam there are these IR leds, so i'm not sure if we disable those leds, it would be sensitive enough to become a passive IR camera. Then: the display part: there has been a couple of head mounted visual displays made, commin with some portable DVD players and for vid ipod users. China has come out with a few, so shouldn't be too expensive, tho not dirt cheap. Maybe we can take one apart, and chuck it in a dummy anpvs7 (so we can use the dummy mounting brackets) or something, put an IR cam in the front, connect up the wires, plug in a power source, and tah dah. am i too optimistic?
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Post by Ferox on Apr 14, 2007 0:07:58 GMT 8
One concern I have about NVG, I assume any OPFOR we play against will only be armed with flashlights? Can we control sensitivity so we don't get blinded? A flashlight right into the lens will be blinding, and we probably won't have sophicated automatic sensors to adjust the output levels down accordingly, if such a thing is possible at all.
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Post by Arclight on Apr 14, 2007 0:25:53 GMT 8
Pest: All along I have been proposing an active device, passive would requre hardcore sensativity and calibration, there's a reason why NV is expensive. Indeed, my design will include LEDs but IR only so no big issue (unless they're using NV to, in which case we'll eb lit up like christmas trees. ). Ferox: At this stage, I'm assuming it won't be too bad really, the camera filter will block out non-IR light so unless a normal torch has a bad IR signature then it should be fine. That said, I have no clue as to the IR brightness of a normal torch, indeed this will be one of the tests I have lined up when we get to the trial stage. Besides, blinding won't be an issue. Unlike proffesional NV, our's isn't a direct light feed from the cathode assemlby, ours is a simple video output device so the image will never glow brighter then the set threshold. Indeed, if we set it right, a shining torch would be blinding yes but not painful at least. As for soultions to remove torch blinding, ha, well that's a completely seperate issue; this could be done using the correct kind of camera, many webcams have auto-brightness response systems but in any case sucg facet research would be for a secondary after-project project. AND just to let you guys know, there's is absolutley no rush on this. Indeed, we all have many other things to do, this is just an idea at this stage. If we manage to get the right contacts/materials/capital to begin work then of course I'll leap in, untill then, I'm too poor to do anything but sit here and post about it.
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Post by woozie on Apr 14, 2007 1:16:06 GMT 8
the display could be a OLED ( uses Wiki, I won't bother explaining ) but it would be uber expensive, but yeah a good old moblie phone that have vid function should work... if you can hack in the thinge... Or you could also have those Window Palm things, stupidly cheap...
Woozie
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Post by Arclight on Apr 14, 2007 1:26:20 GMT 8
Those only work at a distance, we need somthing that works right up against your eye.
UNLESS, we build an arm-mounted sort of display, "auspex/tricorder/colonial marine smartgun" style of course, which is an option.
For the inital test we'd probably just hook it up to a laptop or whatever, then explore smaller devices for field use, then eventualy a close-contact type output device, like those gadgets for watching DVDs on headsets.
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Post by woozie on Apr 14, 2007 1:51:59 GMT 8
if only we got enough budgets... EDIT: DVD headsets... This kind of stuff? Woozie
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Post by yonathanho on Apr 14, 2007 17:03:58 GMT 8
i bought a video camera at a fair for 50 bucks... someone wanna rip it apart? <cough> woozie <cough>
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Post by woozie on Apr 15, 2007 10:17:38 GMT 8
no thank you, I dunno wanna electricute myself yet Woozie
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Post by pestexterminator on Apr 15, 2007 10:32:30 GMT 8
if only we got enough budgets... EDIT: DVD headsets... This kind of stuff? Woozie sort of....if u wear it like goggles, and it fits rite over u'r eyes, yeh, don't rlly want light from the screen givin positions away...
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Goliath
Gunnery Segeant
Argh.
Posts: 571
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Post by Goliath on Apr 15, 2007 11:44:59 GMT 8
I'm just gonna warn you that having a single HUD on one eye is a BAD idea - you keep focusing between the two and you get motion sickness - the US land-warrior system was scrapped because of that.
What I think we should have, is a feed from a small camera (you can get them for $100-200 in Ap liu, and if in bulk, even cheaper) that we have removed the IR filter from. Then fit an array of IR LEDs to provide something for it to see, and run the video output to a small LCD, which we can flip down over our eyes - both of them.
The best thing is, these camera's are cheap, and run for hours on a single 9v battery, and are very light. Slap them on a helmet and go.
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Post by woozie on Apr 15, 2007 16:08:20 GMT 8
why bother to flip them down when you can use OLEDs? and Pest... that screen won't give away your position since it's a one way... only you can see the screen while the enemy can't... anyway, I am not helping much... Woozie
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Post by pestexterminator on Apr 15, 2007 18:39:45 GMT 8
well - since we gonna operate this thing in rlly low light, any light, ie tht projected on the screen will probably be visible to the opfor....so we need somthn rite up against the eye, or have a rubber tubing, so light doesn't get out
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Post by Arclight on Apr 17, 2007 12:31:24 GMT 8
Both eyes is almost as bad though, that will totaly destroy your depth perception, a potentialy very dangerous issue while night fighting (unless the terrain is dead flat and devoid of obstacles, like indoors or whatever).
i'm sure I mentioned this already; FIRST we get the technology working only THEN can we move onto phase 2 of practical implementaion.
PEOPLE, phase 1 of putting together the technology is not as easy as you might think. Getting it running is one thing, but with high reliability and virtualy no lag, a compact and light as possible powersource, physicaly tough, pellet resistant up to at least 2j, that in itself will be a feat of engineering.
Like I said before, there's a chance that the Gen-I might be a simple handheld device rather then somthing helmet mounted.
The practical issues will have to take a back seat while we work out the basics.
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